The More Dell Lies, the More Ubuntu Community Embraces Dell
Having priced similar Dell Ubuntu and Vista systems in the past, at a real difference of 10 dollars, I was curious to check in again and see if Dell has implemented anything the users of IdeaStorm have asked for.
One particular thread caught my attention:
Ubuntu Dell is $50 Less Than Windows Dell — Implemented.
Lets take The Flavor Challenge and build two same-spec 1420 Notebooks:
Note “Jet Black [Included in Price]” on 1420 Ubuntu
Downgrade to “Jet Black [subtract $20]” on 1420 VistaNote “FREE! 2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 at 667MHz [Included in Price]” on 1420 Vista
Upgrade to “2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 at 667MHz [add $150]” on 1420 UbuntuNote “FREE! 160GB SATA Hard Drive (5400RPM) [Included in Price]” on 1420 Vista
Upgrade to “Size: 160GB SATA Hard Drive (5400RPM) [add $125]” on 1420 UbuntuNote “Intel 3945 802.11a/g Mini-card [Included in Price]” on 1420 Ubuntu
Upgrade to “Intel 3945 802.11a/g Mini-card [add $25]” on 1420 VistaTotal:
Inspiron 1420 [Vista] $824
Inspiron 1420N [Ubuntu] $1,049
The people asked, and Dell delivered! And only at $225 more for the Ubuntu laptop!
Say this with me: Dell has no intention of selling non-Windows consumer and commodity PCs/Notebooks. They simply can’t as the net profit on a Dell system is derived directly from the Windows OS via “Desktop Real Estate” and any Microsoft leads and co-marketing funds [kickbacks] provided — and not from the base hardware.
The Linux community is being used to generate free publicity and in turn sell Windows Licenses.
A bit ironic, don’t you think so?
Update 07/11/07:
The given components and prices on the 1420 Notebook have been updated. The price difference is now $25 [assuming no change in Wireless NIC], in favor of the Ubuntu system.
Among frequent price and component discrepancies, price fluctuations, and Windows favored promotions, I’m not sure if Dell is serious about selling “open-source” [as Dell calls them] systems, rather than generating publicity.
Considering that expected sales are at 1% of total systems shipped, and that Microsoft could break Dell in half by decreasing the received Windows License discounts and co-marketing funds, I have no choice but to assume the latter.
Update 04/30/10:
Seems like its back to $200 again.
it’s killing ya!
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7159701171.html
nuff said
Did it ever occur to you that those “Free” upgrades could have been partially sponsored by MS and not by Dell?
And on every other system, and every other time? No.
MS sponsors Dell in may other ways… Volume discounts for licenses, marketing kickbacks, and maybe even pay Dell for having Office pre-installed, or setting up MSN search as the default.
This example is purely Dell’s work. They have no intention of selling non-Windows systems. This is what they have done so far: price a minimal system, sell a few, then quickly put free upgrades on the Windows-counterpart.
They really have very little choice here, as there is no profit to be made on the Ubuntu offerings. So might as well use it for publicity and drive traffic to the Windows systems.
“This example is purely Dell’s work.” – I’d like to see some kind of proof behind that statement.
“MS sponsors Dell in many other ways…”
I see that as a reason why Dell can afford to discount a Vista PC by near $300 in free upgrades vs Ubuntu PC. At least this makes more sense than “purely Dell’s work”. Also, why blame Dell (a for profit capitalist) for steering people to more profitable products? Common now, it’s a business, not a charity. I’d buy what makes sense to me (as a consumer). In this case, I’d buy a better equipped and cheaper Vista model and dual boot it with my Linux of choice (and be happy that I did not pay $300 more for the same PC).
1) Would you also like me to prove that water is wet. And doesn’t the burden of the proof lie on you considering you are the one claiming some type of a MS/Dell “free-upgrade” conspiracy.
2) Dell is not discounting the Windows system, price already reflects upgrades. This is the price they sell other similar systems at.
3) I’m not blaming Dell for anything. They are using this situation to their advantage. I just think it’s rather ironic [both sad and funny] that Linux is being used to sell Windows Licenses and the Community is blindly all for it.
1) Only if you blame water for being wet.
2) “The More Dell Lies” in the title sounds like an accusation and blaming them for some wrong-doing.
Take it easy. It’s all good and funny at the same time. I heard so many times how Linux is supposed to be cheaper and better choice, but in this unfortunate case, it seems to backfire :(
Also, on the other hand, in order to run Ubuntu, you don’t need to upgrade your hardware specs to the same levels.
“The More Dell Lies†in the title sounds like an accusation and blaming them for some wrong-doing.
I don’t blame them for being a business. Never the less, they are still “lying”, or at best, “deceiving.”
Also, on the other hand, in order to run Ubuntu, you don’t need to upgrade your hardware specs to the same levels.
I’d rather pay $225 less and get the same system with Vista.
“Linux is being used to sell Windows Licenses and the Community is blindly all for it.”
I agree that it is sad and unfortunate, but what do you suggest the Community should demand at the time? Stop offering Ubuntu? Or provide same “free” upgrades on Ubuntu PCs? But that entitles Dell to ask “Pardon me, but whose pocket the free upgrade comes out from?”
As far as “MS/Dell conspiracy”. I would rather call it “business partnership” than anything else. I don’t expect MS to come out and say “Hey Linux Community, here is my market share. Just take it”. MS needs to make sure that Vista sells one way or the other, and I do think MS can afford to take a small financial hit by sponsoring free hardware upgrade on Vista PC.
…and I do think MS can afford to take a small financial hit by sponsoring free hardware upgrade on Vista PC.
I think it’s rather the Ubuntu priced systems that are being manipulated.
And the price difference is anything but small.
Dell has no intention of selling Ubuntu systems. There is no profit on commodity hardware. The net margin comes from “Desktop Real Estate” [crapware], Microsoft marketing kickbacks, and anything else that streams directly from the OS.
“I’d rather pay $225 less and get the same system with Vista.”
Me too. Think of it as a nicely equipped Ubuntu PC, with $225 paid back to you for your troubles of removing Windows and replacing it with Ubuntu.
“Dell is not discounting Windows systems, free-upgrades included.”
The bottom line is same no matter how you look at it:
Base PC with free upgrades worth of $225 OR
Fully loaded PC with a $225 instant discount.
The words are different, but the outcome is same. Let’s play nice and not argue about it anymore :) I will admit I am the stupid one:)
Mr. Admin (or Ms.)
It would be easier to keep up with you if you did not edit your answers after posting those :)
“And the price difference is anything but small.”
for you and me it is not small, because we’re not multi-gazzillioneers (I took a liberty to assume you’re not). But I think MS can drop a couple of hundreds/PC to make sure that it retains it’s “Desktop Real Estate”. You invest into real estate – you can charge your rent later :)
I usually post quick, so I have to edit for spelling mistakes and maybe insert that other random thought.
On the current point, I think we’ll just agree to disagree.
This is a joke! it’s obvious that Dell get a lot of money from MS, and they are protecting that income by making the ubuntu machines less attractive to buyers.
Most linux users will be happy enough to format the drive and install Linux, but it still means that MS can claim their tax and another copy of Vista sold!
Well, at least something useful came out of this blog entry…
The status of the above IdeaStorm ‘idea’ has been changed from “Implemented” to “none — Dell has no shame!”
And I’ve edited the entry to reflect the link to the Microsoft 1999 Anti-Trust “Findings of Fact” which outlines how OEMs profit when they play ball with Microsoft.
I must hand it to you man, you are the most successful anti-Linux troll I’ve ever seen.
Thank you. Though I’m not anti-Linux, I’m pro-Linux-truth.
Then why are you comparing a computer that is on sale to one that is not? Also why didn’t you apply the $350 off coupon to the Ubuntu machine, which you can NOT apply to the Windows machine?
I don’t believe it’s “on sale” anymore than any of the other systems I have priced before. And I’m comparing the exact same 1420 and 1420N systems.
Coupons are a bit funny… Are the coupon codes provided on the Dell site for everyone to find? Is it valid on the actual system? For how long? And at what price? Do I have to spend another $700 to get it?
Just follow the offerings and you will see a pattern emerge. This is nothing new. Even when the systems are “$50″ less, the real difference is around $10 when you consider free shipping on the Windows system, or an extra $20 for the coloring of the Laptop, and/or the difference of a “Dell” branded Wireless NIC. And sometimes I have seen the same exact upgrades cost more on the “N” system.
Do a search for “Dell coupons”, Dell regularly offers 50% off coupons on their website prices. Also, it seems you don’t know how the computer business works. I’m sure you know that it doesn’t cost Microsoft much more (if anything) to print up a copy of Vista Ultimate then it does to print up Vista Basic. The same applies to hardware. The XPS laptop doesn’t really cost that much more to produce then the stock $500 laptop. Dell is offering upgrades that cost them almost nothing. That’s why Dell offers crazy coupons. If Microsoft offered a 50% off Vista Ultimate coupon, which is at $400, and they make $200 – that is still more then what they’d make from Vista Basic Upgrade at regular price. Dell doesn’t make some set percent on every computer they sell. Some sales they can make $1000 in profit, others they can make -$200 in profit. Buying a $2000 XPS laptop at $1000 likely nets them more profit then a $500 regular priced laptop. Basically, from the standpoint of Dell, the “free upgrades” cost them pennies.
I’m not even sure what we are arguing about here.
Yes, I’m more than aware that Dell does not make a fixed price one each system. And they make a little more off non-commodity, premium hardware systems.
And I’ve never seen Dell offer 50% coupons. At best, once in a while 30%. And sometimes $350 off some set price at around $1299 or more [$300 off $999 is usually the best you get once in a blue moon]. And they are not advertised on their site, just via email, ads, and 3rd party sites. Most of them are limited quantity use, expire quickly, and a lot are even not ‘technically’ valid and slip thought the cracks on certain systems.
While I could not find the coupon you are talking about, I did find another one that gets the Windows system ANOTHER $200 OFF!
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?t=555963
Is it just me, or isn’t Ubuntu still free? Why argue about it? Grab the cheap Vista machine, wipe it, and install Feisty Fawn for free. Driver support should be available at Dell if the same model laptop (which will have the same chipset, sound, nic, video…) is available with Ubuntu. Who cares who gets the money as long as you get the best deal?
Putting the money issue aside, Dell is the first major OEM spearheading linux pre-installed on desktops for the public concept.
If they keep it up for a while other vendors are sure to follow suit (competition) and a chain reaction will begin (drivers, compatible peripherals, software, etc.); that is something we all want. So Dell makes a few $ in the interim. Let them. Consider that this time last year Ubuntu Dells weren’t even on the radar.
Did you get Photoshop and MS Office with that Vista?
If you need to buy MS Office and Photoshop your Dell+Vista is not that chepper. And after that you must get and antivirus right?
Try to configure your Dell with Windows Vista Ultimate?
The last question: Do you think that the Linux gurus that work for Dell don’t get salary?
Putting the money issue aside, Dell is the first major OEM spearheading linux pre-installed on desktops for the public concept.
I’m all for it, but I just don’t see how this is possible.
There are several huge problems here…
1) Microsoft is the life-blood of Dell. They say jump, Dell says how high. Since we know that most of the profit Dell rakes in on PCs and Notebooks is the result of Microsoft “benefits”, Microsoft could easily drive Dell right into the ground.
2) There is no profit to be made on non-premium hardware.
3) The market for consumer Linux systems is extremely small. Dell was quoted as saying expected sales were going to be 1% of their 20,000,000 systems.
4) The “vocal” segment of the Linux user-base is never satisfied. Price the systems $50 lower than the Windows counterpart, and they will demand $100 off. Not only that, but they also never buy anything to begin with. They only complain. And as soon as a new fad comes, they jump ship.
Did you get Photoshop and MS Office with that Vista?
Did you get Photoshop and MS Office with Ubuntu? Or are you suggesting that Gimp and OpenOffice are 100% genuine alternatives? Most people that use the actual tools would disagree. Either way, most of these apps have win32 ports.
And after that you must get and antivirus right?
No.
Try to configure your Dell with Windows Vista Ultimate?
Okay. I’ll just add another $300 for the Ubuntu support just to even things out.
The last question: Do you think that the Linux gurus that work for Dell don’t get salary?
I’m not following.
The important thing is that the hardware is compatible with Ubuntu and that Microsoft has been unable to twist Dell into doing something that denies the computers to Linux users. However, Microsoft is winning the image war, because you seem to get more for your money with their OS. Del is not going to confront MS head on and promote the real value of Linux OS over Vista. To do so would be suicide. Someday the idiot consumers of these computers will wake up. Will Linux be ready for them then?
I just performed the same test as you did (building the system below either with Ubuntu and Vista Home respectively), and every upgrade is now priced the same, regardless of the OS. So now the final prices are $774 (Ubuntu) and $779 (Vista)…
SYSTEM COLOR Jet Black
PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T5250 (1.5GHz/667Mhz FSB/2MB cache)
OPERATING SYSTEM Ubuntu version 7.04
DISPLAY Anti-glare, widescreen 14.1 inch display (1280×800)
VIDEO CARD Intel Graphics Media Accelerator X3100
MEMORY 2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 at 667MHz
HARD DRIVE Size: 160GB SATA Hard Drive (5400RPM)
OPTICAL DRIVE 24X CD Burner/DVD Combo Drive
WIRELESS CARDS Intel® 3945 802.11a/g Mini-card
INTEGRATED WEBCAM No Camera
BATTERY OPTIONS 56Whr Lithium Ion Battery (6 cell)
SOUND OPTIONS Integrated High Definition Audio
I make the test too, between a 1420n and a 1420 “Best” selection, and I got 774$ for Ubuntu system and 824$ for Vista. The memory and hard drive upgrade are free in both cases.
The problem in this case is that it will serve as an example to others in the future. If all linux users will buy the Vista version because of the price difference, linux sales will be very low. And Dell and other suppliers will never adopt linux in their offerings because the evidence shows that it doesn’t sell well.
Practises like this only provide a “I told you so” for pro-windows people in future.
And if it is not sold, it is not supported. And if it is not supported, you are screwed when you buy new hardware and it doesn’t work out of the box.
THAT is why this is bad!
> $774 (Ubuntu) and $779 (Vista)…
Oops, that was $774 vs $799. Sorry about the typo!
I’ve just ran the comparison again, and the price difference for the 1420 Notebook is now $25 cheaper in favor the Ubuntu model. While I don’t have a problem with this, I do have a problem with knowing that this will not last, as it never does. In a few days, or weeks, the price will change back, and/or the promotions provided will again benefit the Windows system.
Has anyone noticed this on the Ubuntu system?
FREE 2GB: $150 Value!
Expires Thursday, July 12, 2007
- $150.00
That’s right, it goes away tomorrow. Maybe Dell will extend it, but the fact remain that Dell is playing with how they advertise the “open-source” systems to minimize sales.
What an irrelevant comparison. It sounds like you comparison shop based solely on price, while I bought a Dell Ubuntu system simply because it’s better. Vista machine: $774. Ubuntu machine: $799. Speed, security and stability: priceless.
I also compared the TOTAL cost with my Windows machine. A previous poster’s point about the inclusion of extra software and the lack of need for an Internet security suite is a good one. Although you were dismissive of the point, I personally spend close to $2,000 over a 3-year period on Windows software that I now have solid equivalents of with Ubuntu. And, I dare you to run a Windows machine with no add-on security… not the questionable free programs you can download, either, but something solid like ZoneAlarm or Norton 360 (initial cost + annual renewal + slowing down your system).
Speed, security and stability: priceless.
You’re still living in the Windows 95/98 times. Windows 2000 and XP have been stable for myself and many others.
…I personally spend close to $2,000 over a 3-year period on Windows software
Is that your TCO?
and, I dare you to run a Windows machine with no add-on security…
Dare accepted and completed.
I’ve been running Windows with no firewall s/w, and anti-virus protection since 2000.
How do I do it? I know how to use a computer.
1) I have a router. Routers operate under DNAT, which has the effect of preventing any connections from establishing that did not come from the LAN side. Which takes care of some security issues involved.
2) Updates are kept current.
3) I don’t download random junk from the net.
You might also want to consider what would happen if the desktop market share was switched between Windows and Linux… No one writes exploits for the other 1-5% when they can have 95% from the start.
Linux does not have some secret formula that makes it immune.
And this does not even begin to touch on the issues of having OS deployment figures in the 100s of millions, spread out over a very diverse userbase, major 3rd party applications, backward compatibility, etc…
With an increasing market share, Linux will have the same exact growing pains and problems as Microsoft.
i think the real point that all this has overlooked is that dell is now actually selling computers with ubuntu installed and ready to run, straight out of the box – the first (and currently, only) major vendor to do so. if they stumble a bit during this introductory phase of a new business model, can they really be blamed? of course they owe allegience to ms as that company is still their major bread and butter, and whether dell or ms is responsible for the discounts mentioned, ultimately it’s irrelevant. even the fact that those discounts make a linux system slightly more expensive (or slightly less inexpensive) than a comparable ms system is of minor consequence; the ultimate goal is to have linux offered to the general public via a well-known distribution channel, and dell has done this. because of this, hp is now rumored to be readying their own linux product line.
the door has been opened and that opening appears to already be widening, allowing more people to be aware of new, exciting possibilities beyond ms’s mental midgetry.
those who would buy a ms system and replace it with linux defeats the purpose of this whole exercise – to make linux viable on its own merits and to deny ms their unwarranted “tax”. the more who will buy a linux system rather than “repair” an ms system – even if it should mean a slight increase in out-of-pocket expense (not too far removed from the increased initial frustrations of a new learning curve when first introduced to linux, yet we all did it) – the sooner unjustified subsidies to ms will be an historical footnote.
some of the benefits from this:
additional free promotion for linux to the world at large
dell helping ensure viable driver support for any offered hardware
additional vendors looking into offering linux
gradual reduction in ms’s market strength
personally, my finances have taken one hell of a beating this year but as soon as i can i will support dell in this new venture in the hopes it will help open that door just a bit farther
You’re making the assumption that the general public wants Linux. Everything that I have seen point to the contrary.
I almost bit, until I realized it came with Ubuntu.
ubuntu, yuck.
linux, no thanks…
wow comes with unbuntu, that sucks
unbuntu kills the deal
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?t=556028
It’s not just that the Linux version of the same machine costs more. Dell is probably going to stop offering the Linux version because they don’t sell (ignoring the fact they cost more). That’s been the Dell/MS plan all along, to discredit Linux and prove that nobody will buy them. At the moment the main benefit to a Linux user of Dell offering a Linux PC is that it guarantees the hardware works with Linux, even if you buy the cheaper version with Windows installed. When Dell stops selling the Linux version because “there’s no demand” then Linux users won’t be able to buy a Dell system that’s known to be compatible with Linux at any price. That’s the real tragedy.
“I’ve been running Windows with no firewall s/w, and anti-virus protection since 2000.”
You are too good for your own good!
I will admit I recently installed AntiVir [free edition] to scan a few downloaded isos, but I usually switch it off as soon as the system boots.
That’s been the Dell/MS plan all along, to discredit Linux and prove that nobody will buy them.
I’m not crazy after all. Someone else shares my views on the matter.
I’ve been running Windows with no firewall s/w, and anti-virus protection since 2000.
How do I do it? I know how to use a computer.
Oh I see. My Dad, Sister and kids are not in your league. They are typical Dell customers, not like you. All of them have Windows PCs in various states of disability in spite of security software. But, I suspect you will have a smart retort to that. You have an answer to everything, don’t you? I’m not certain why you would bother posting your opinion and accepting people’s feedback. No one’s viewpoint or experience matters.
But, I suspect you will have a smart retort to that. You have an answer to everything, don’t you? I’m not certain why you would bother posting your opinion and accepting people’s feedback. No one’s viewpoint or experience matters.
They matter so much to me that I actually take the time and effort to read, understand, and respond.
“How do I do it? I know how to use a computer.”
Oh I see. My Dad, Sister and kids are not in your league. They are typical Dell customers, not like you. All of them have Windows PCs in various states of disability in spite of security software.
If your Dad, Sister, and kids have problems under Windows, they will certainly have even more problems under Linux. Perhaps not of the same exact kind, but numerous never the less — from the basics, to the moderate, to the advanced.
I am just happy to be an expat living in switzerland and not have to deal with all of this paranoia and self doubt. Get a life and do want every you want, but why waste time in writing, when words alone will accomplish nothing? Do it!
“If you Dad, Sister, and kids have problems under Windows, they will have even more problems under Linux.”
You are not only good, you are a psychic . You da man!
“…they will certainly have even more problems under Linux.”
Absolutely not true. If I am any guage (as a typical lifelong Windows user now using GNU/Linux), I have had very few problems compared with my Windows XP install. The difference is that I was able to easily resolve any issues I had because that’s the nature of a GNU/Linux distro. That’s not the nature of any Windows version.
Considering all factors, many GNU/Linux users have decided that using Windows has more disadvantages than its worth. I’m sure that we appreciate being made to feel like idiots for making that choice and that we should go back to Windows.
“…I actually take the time and effort to read, understand, and respond.”
For what purpose? Review the replies you’ve made and the rising frustration of the posters. You concede absolutely nothing.
You are not only good, you are a psychic . You da man!
Do you mean Clairvoyant?
“Speed, security and stability: priceless.”
Bunch of baloney, you can price that. Availability of software is almost a mute point too:
1) Most of open source software provided in Linux can be used in Windows. No additional price to pay. Security, well it never hurts to educate yourself on proper use of PC (or any equipment in general).
2) Just because Linux has some SW (that claims to perform a similar task to it’s Windows counterpart), this does not mean that it works. Try to price inability to perform a certain task :(
I will elaborate on 2. At its’ current state, Linux is NOT capable of handling the most trivial task: INTERNET BROWSING. Fast, secure, stable? Does it even matter if I cannot see my favorite web site? It has nothing to do with sites designed for IE. There are sites that work just fine in FireFox/Windows and crap out in Linux (FireFox, Konqueror, Opera,…). It is either the page is not rendered correctly or dynamic content fails to work (with plugins installed and configured). Anybody cares to price that?
On the other hand I know how it feels to lose your data because of faulty security. Solution: dual-boot and use the best of both :)
If I am any guage (as a typical lifelong Windows user now using GNU/Linux), I have had very few problems compared with my Windows XP install. The difference is that I was able to easily resolve any issues I had because that’s the nature of a GNU/Linux distro. That’s not the nature of any Windows version.
And for every 1 experience such as this, there are 50+ experiences along the lines of “Tried Linux, went back to Windows.”
I’m sure that we appreciate being made to feel like idiots for making that choice and that we should go back to Windows.
I hope I have not said anything that made you feel that way. My motto is use whatever you are most productive in.
I have no emotional attachment to an OS.
But as you don’t appreciate ‘others making you feel like an idiot’, I’m sure that many consumers don’t appreciate having Linux forced on them.
Solution: dual-boot and use the best of both :)
I like how you think but I would take it a step further: install VMWare Player or Server [both free], or any other VM alternative such as VirtualBox [the new upcomer based on qemu -- give it another 6 months], and run Linux as a guest OS under Windows.
“…run Linux as a guest OS under Windows.” = BSOD
BAD ADVISE!